as transcribed from the chat protocol on Facebook, downloaded 5. November 2021
Narrative by Steve, unless stated

She remarried in 1942 in Leeds to a Ronald Marshall. Ronald was a soldier and born in Hertsfordshire so it looks like he was stationed up here at some point during the war and that’s how he met her. He was 22 and she was 32 ! Gladys died in 1974 in Harlow, Essex, aged just 63 (and Ronald in Harlow, Essex, in 1996) so I’m guessing Ronald took her back south after marriage or the war.

The difficulty in finding her was, for some reason, her birth date was recorded as 27 June 1910 not 1909 on both marriage and death records. She also adopted the middle name Patricia and was known as Pat by her family.

On Children – At least one but maybe 3

Bit vague at the moment as they guy wasn’t born when Gladys died and isn’t close to that part of the family but hopefully I’ll be able to find out more. At least one of the children is dead (also called Ron) but he’s shown as having children in the guys family tree. He thinks some of Gladys husbands siblings are still alive who would have known her.

Cousins

Ok. According to my contact (who hasn’t got back to me yet)’s family tree, one of the sons of Gladys (Ron, who was married to someone I’ve identified as Sonia Pinder), had two children. I’ve found two women Kaye and Kim, who were born in Epping, Essex (good location, Ron was born and married in Epping), in 1968 and 1970 (good date, Ron was 24 and 26 respectively and it was 2 and 4 years after the wedding) with a mother having a maiden name Pinder (which is a relatively unusual name). Not absolute proof but if true they are half cousins…

Well it looks like a Kim Marshall married a Ekrem A Dedic in Harlow 1989 (good location and date)and had a child Shernada in 1990. Even less sure about that one without documents…

On the plus side Kim Marshall-Dedic will be pretty easy to find/contact as she appears to be some sort of lecturer in (wait for it) dog grooming…lol

Her daughter is a PE and Hockey coach at the Ipswich School. I think I have her Facebook account identified…

One step back, two steps forward. It seems Kim Marshall no longer owns Blooming Dogs (as shown on her linkedin profile) . She left in 2017. Incidentally that’s the same year as she sold the house she was living in on the 2003 electoral register. However I’ve managed to contact what I believe to be her daughter; Shenarda Zula Dedic. Obviously she’s a bit cautious but I’ve asked for contact details of her mother (as I think this is best coming direct than through her daughter) and she’s gone off to speak to her mum. The fact she did not deny that her mother was the granddaughter of Pat I think is pretty strong evidence that I have the right person…

On Gladys Death

Ok. More information. No sure how to interpret this. I attach Gladys death certificate. Seems she died of cervical cancer, which spread. Cervical cancer appears to be almost entirely caused by the Human Papillomavirus – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_papillomavirus_infection

First Reactions

Okay. I’ve heard back from Shenarda. She is the descendent of Gladys and I have the family tree correct. Gladys and Ron had only one child (also Ron) who had two daughters, Kaye and Kim. There’s no children of Kaye. Unfortunately Kim was only 5 when Gladys died so remembers little of her. There are going to look and see if they can find any photos. One interesting point; it seems Ron and Gladys fostered at least two children. I think we’ve probably got as far here with Shenarda as we can…

(in answer to Kaths question whether the two females were still living)
Kim is alive, as is her sister. They are 51 and 49 respectively. Kim was with with Shenarda when I discussed it with her. No they didn’t know anything about it all. If Gladys told her husband he kept it to himself. He clearly knew she’d been married before but that she’d had children? Who knows…

They are willing to help us find out more so I don’t want to do anything to disrupt that. Shenarda thanked me for telling them and her mother asked for a copy of Gladys death certificate so there’s definite interest. But I guess it’s like finding something out about our great grandmothers; Caroline, Hannah, Rose Agnes or even Florence. Interesting but not as personal as about someone we really knew…

What Jean said

This is what Jean said – Grandad (Thomas) talked to us about the divorce when Margaret and Stuart split up. Gran (Laura) talked about it more after Grandad (Thomas) died. I don’t think that he talked about it to her. He was very ashamed! I think my Mum (Laura) learned more when my Grandma (Caroline) came to live with us, they used to sit and chat when we were all out – I’ve added the names to clarify identity. Seems it was talked about quite a bit…

Reflecting on all this, the one person who does come out of this well is Grandad. He might have been a miserable old sod in later life (although I don’t imagine working down the mines helped his health) but he stepped up when Gladys got pregnant and took responsibility for Dad when the marriage broke down. It’s hard not to think that at crucial times, but for Grandad, Dad’s life could have turned out much worse…

A New Lead

Ok. I’ve had a reply back from my contact on Ancestry, Colin, whose mother was the niece of Gladys through her marriage to Ron snr. There’s something a bit odd going on here because originally he claimed that his mother was ‘very young’ when Pat died. However it turns out she was 19. However now he’s says she doesn’t remember much about her. I was 15 when my grandad died and I remember plenty of him. Anyway, what he did tell me is that Ron snr had 2 brothers, Ivan and John, who are still alive. I think I’ve traced Ivan (who will be 86) and maybe even got an address for him. I’m trying to see if Colin has any contact at it would be easier to go through him, but if not maybe a direct approach to Ivan?

No reply from Colin and nothing further from Shernarda. So I’ve written to Ivan. Bit of a long shot tbh. I’m pretty sure I know where he was living in 2010 and there’s no record that the house was sold since or is for sale. So fair chance he’s still alive. Doesn’t mean he’s still coherent (at 86) of course or wants to help. Worth a shot though…

11 Nov 2020: Rather surprisingly I got a call from Ivan Marshall today, who I speculatively wrote to 3 days ago!! Ivan is the brother of Ron, Gladys 2nd husband. Unfortunately it seems the Marshall’s weren’t a close family (to out it mildly). There were 7 children seperated by at least 14 years. He only remembers meeting Gladys once, during the war when he was 8 (he was 14 years younger than Ron). I’d guess that was shortly after they were married. The next time he met Ron, he had a different wife Rose (Ron married a Rosalind Pope, 3 years after Gladys death). Ron apparently was a tank driver in the Essex Yeomanry and was hit in Normany in 1944. There is another brother alive (John) and Ivan is going to speak to him, but he doesn’t think he’ll know anything more. Looks like a dead end…